Chow Update

GET CHOW NOW, WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!!!

Damn it Norm! Al called me from Oakland and told me you were in. How am I gonna coach a QB without you? You saw what I was able to do with Jamarcus Leaf. My QB threw 3 picks against UCLA last year! How in hell did I get this job anyway?

If no Chow, what's the backup plan? Lane as HC/OC (maybe bringing in a QB coach to augment)? Other candidates?

Amen!

Come on garret/Lane, get Chow NOW! We all know chow isn't too happy with Neu over at ucla....Kiffin don't let your ego get in the way, like pete...worry about recruiting and building a disciplined/clean program...let chow call the plays! Pay chow some serious dough, we can afford it!

The Donkey quotes Neuheisel:

"I want to honor his (Norm's) opportunity to make a living and do the best he possibly can for himself, I also have a program that is sacred and deserves commitment."

The Donkey explains: This gentlemen is called negotiation. Give everybody a chance to come out smelling like a Rose. RN gets to stand up for his alma matter, and explains why they might loose Chow: "I want to honor his opportunity to make a living and the best he possibly can for himself." In other words, Chow will improve his "living" either by a USC contract or a UCLA extension.

RN also gets to express some anger: "I also have a program that is sacred and deserves commitment." Which allows him to save face.

This much is clear: Norm's people are negotiating with USC, Norm is interested. Otherwise he would have come out and simply said I'm not interested and finish this charade.

The reality is that there is no reason for USC to humiliate UCLA outside of the football field. Although some of the bruin fans beg for constant beat downs on this board, there is nothing to gain at this level. It's business. And at the end, both universities gain from all this publicity.

w/o Chow -- this a horrible hire. Kiffin flat out hasn't shown he is a coach. Thank God he can recruit -- and I pray his press conferences go better than tonight. Wow.

Let Chow walk-he's not worth that kind of money given what he's done since leaving us 5 yrs ago.

Why are so many of us Trojans hung up over what somebody did in the past ? Football has no mercy on those who live in the past-we should be reminded by the Robo II hire. Chow is old; he has lost his drive and seems to still have resentment against SC-why would want somebody like that to be our OC ?

i don't get this. chow wants out of ucla which is clear to everyone including neuheisel. we all (or mostly all) want chow at usc. ucla pays him less than he's worth and we can easily afford more. why not just get it done? kiffen would be very wise to go with chow at this point which would bring a ton more support and make it a better team. the only issue i can see if that kiffen might want more offensive responsibility and thinks chow will clash with him.

Garrett and Kiffin should be clear about this point: They will not be served well by disappointing the alumni regarding Chow. Seal the deal.

just4sc: Why does Norm Chow matter? Let me ask you this: do three Heisman winners and two national championships back to back under his tenure matter? Yeah, guess so.

just4sc is right! Believe it or not, so is Garett when he talks about, " I try to capture them at the point where they burst out, i.e. Pete Carroll." This hire is all about Lane Kiffin, not Norm Chow or the other guys who came with Lane. Monte is 70, and Ed O is a great coach, but one will will not add much to the W column after NSD.

While I would like to see Norm Chow as OC as much as the next Trojan, to say that he is absolutely critical is a stretch. Since 2004, his actual record is no more distinguished than Kiffin's. Nostalgia doesn't get first downs. And the coaches who have worked with Chow hae been reluctant to give hime the keys to the car. I can't fault Kiffin for taking a similar stance. Maybe Carroll was right...that Norm Chow is best-suited to the role of QB coach at this point in his long and distinguished career.

The fact that Lane kiffin is relatively inexperienced at HC doesn't mean he won't succeed, but it does mean that Mike Garrett has taken a risk with Lane. Trojans need to accept that a risk has been made, and enjoy the ride. He inherits a talented team, and he will he be a successful recruiter. Lane's coaching staff is bound to turnover like Carroll's does (if he has any success). If he is to be successful enough to establish a "Kiffin era", it will be because he is the real deal. If not, he'll probably recruit well enough to pass along a decent team to the next guy.

Like Carroll's hire, no one is going to know if this was a good hire until it plays out. And that will be determined by Kiffin, not necessarily Chow.

Sounds like this whole Chow thing is falling apart at the seams. My feeling now is NC stays at Ruin Nation. If that happens, we need to find an OC who can and will open up the playbook that will utilize MB's arm strength and the atheleticism of our RB's and WR's. Defense will be solid in my opinion.

JAG, I don't think Lane's staff will turn over anywhere near the rate that Carroll's did. Caesar was in a stage of his career where he wanted to build his coaching tree. Even coming in, he picked up Monte's kid Lane as an assistant and promoted him up the ranks. Lane, OTOH, needs to win for a decade before worrying about his legacy.

As to Norm... These guys all have a shelf life when they can bring the best out of the kids. Norm was at his peak ripeness in the early 00s. He didn't do much with Vince Young and the Titans, and next to nothing with UCLA. He is not head coach material. Pay him well, and give him plenty of influence, but be able to cope if he's just past his prime a little.

Come on, guys, Norm is 'negotiating.' And why not? the ruins can't pay him half of what SC can. I think for once Wolfe is right: Chow wants 1) the most money he can get and 2) a real sense that Kiffin won't treat him like a punk and really let him run the offense. I can't believe that Garrett hired Kiffin without clearing the Chow connection with Kif and Chow. Garrett may be a lot of things but he's no fool.

what does it say about Kiffin that Norm's willing to stay at UCLA for less money than be on his staff?

The decision by LK on Chow will give quite an insight on what can be expected in the year(s) to follow. Pete was absolutely amazing in what he accomplished at USC but he let his ego negatively affect even greater successes. Bringing in Chow is definately something that will make the program (the offense AND the quarterbacks) better. Lane needs to show that he is mature enough and smart enough to learn from Pete's mistakes and put the program first.

gus malzahn, can we steal him away from Auburn. 1.5 million dollar contract might perk his interest.

It's funny because it seems like everyone is more concerned with the hiring of Norm Chow than with LK. But who can blame us? And everyone is talking about NC's "shelf life" or "he's past his prime". WTF??? The last time I saw...I didn't see NC suit up with pads and a helmet and catch a few TD passes, let alone getting injured because he picked up a pen to jot down notes. You want to talk about "past his prime"? Look up Bobby Bowden...NC is nowhere near that. I'm not trying to compare apples and oranges, but I'm just saying. Not very hard to know what you've known in the past about playcalling and schemes, with the exception of progressive defensive schemes other programs are running. But I'm pretty sure NC is no dummy and makes the necessary adjustments to counter those defensive schemes.

Yeah, he didn't fair well in the NFL, but there are more egos on an NFL team than you can imagine, let alone the players. Yeah, he didn't do well at UCLA, but the level of talent wasn't there, leading to poor execution. Plain and simple, NC is made for the college game but needs elite talent for his high powered offensive schemes to work. That being said, SC is the perfect place for him. I'm really tired of all this Mumbo Jumbo about Chow coming here. IS HE COMING HERE OR NOT???? All we want is a YES OR NO answer. Wolfie, we don't want any rhetoric about "negotiations" or "leaning towards". We want "Norm Chow is USC's Offensive Coordinator" OR "Norm Chow IS (not wants) staying at UCLA". Until then, no more mumbo jumbo. We're sick of it and it's damn exhausting!

see, again, this is what i am talking about...the Kool-Aiders pinning too much hope on Chow completing the (cough) DREAM TEAM!

chow aint comin' fellas. here's why: norm chow has integrity. there is no way in hades he is going to turn his back on Kevin Prince and walk accross the field and assist the golden boy/lil' pete/pious passer/MB7 and for what? more money? that would be something Andy Dufrense would do in a heartbeat, but not Norm Chow. so long as UCLA offers him a decent contract (guaranteed 800K for 3 years) Chow stays.

of course, Neu-Hassle may be thinking it is time for change and convince AD Dan that we need some new blood. either way we have the moral high ground. and having the moral high ground is oh so sugar sweeeeet, trust me.

Not pinning hope on Chow....Just stating the obvious. If we get Norm Chow, cool. If we don't get Chow we expect MG or LK to hire someone is going to make this offense GO! Believe me, I hate the fact that SC fans believe NC is the "End All, Be All" coordinator. There are other qualified OC's out there that can make this offense just as potent as it was when we won those National Championships.

1. This is a big decision, one that should be slept on for a night or two, at least. Give Chow, not to mention Kiffin, a chance at this. Kiffin, like Pete, probably does not want to share the glory, so I would be surprised if this comes about.

2. And lordy, lordy, Ugly Charlie Sucket actually said something funny for the first time in all the months he has been spilling his spiteful comments on this blog about my beloved ol'SC-- that "we have the moral high ground." The saying actually is 'having the high moral ground,' but coming from 'Full-of-Himself' Sucket, that is pretty darn funny.

As Steve Hartman said yesterday, Lane Kiffin is a fraud. He was born on third base and swears he hit a triple. The guy has been pimped up the ranks and overrated for years.

Can't wait to see the Mausoleum half empty in 3 years after USC returns to oblivion. Meanwhile, Neuheisel and Chow will be hoisting up Rose Bowl trophies.

It does feel as though Chow is negotiating...but the fact that he wasn't even here when most of this went down is a little odd. I would expect that he would have been introduced along with Kiffin & Orgeron if he had been part of the de jure package deal. This seems to me like Chow is desirable, and USC was talking with him, but his final hire as OC is indeed up to the new HC. If Chow doesn't make the move he's a fool by the way, but USC should put some pressure on him by leaking their Plan B...which is what???

THIS JUST IN - CHOW STAYING AS UCLA OC: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/

Best of luck, boys, with your OC search.

We'll see you in the Rose Bowl this fall.

oh how sugar sweeeet is that "moral high ground" is the phrase of the day...LAT now reporting that Coach O after hemming and hawing finally admits calling Tenn recruits to "give them direction" after he said he did "not to my knowledge do anything wrong knowingly". article points out there are flyers all over HH saying "DONT CALL ANY RECRUITS!!!" but he does it anyway. and some of the recuits he called on conference call and even the kids thought it was bush league!! i'm sure they won't tell the NCAA though, i mean they were only must abandoned and had the rug pulled out from under them.

wow. i knew this was going to be more funner than a barrell of monkees but this is beyond even my hopes and dreams. i am cancelling my subscription to cable tv.

garrett needed a moral high ground HC now more than ever to put out the NCAA flames and he done gone out and hired the Arson Squad.

VB:

Steve Hartman? That was Pat Forde's quote from ESPN. Hartman stole it like he stole Marv Albert's hairpiece.

Did you just say Neuheisel and Chow will be hoisting up trophies? The only reason Neuheisel wants Chow now is because USC wants him. Otherwise, he might have fired him as a scapegoat. And Neuheisel will be fired if his team doesn't start improving. Your team BACKED into some bowl game against Temple and almost lost. What makes you think your program is on the rise? Rose Bowl trophies? Give me a break!

"He was born on 3rd base and swears he hit a triple" That is a classic line! Also, in terms of LK, it is for the most part, accurate. Now, we will soon see whether or not he is mature enough to realize he got the pass to 3rd and smart enough to realize he IS in scoring position but someone else needs to drive him home.

To me, this thing is extraordinarily simple and boils down to one basic thing:

Norm Chow respects USC and wants to be at USC. But Norm Chow has a lot of pride and does not want to be known as a second fiddle to Lane Kiffin. He has earned his keep running the offense, coaching up the quarterback, and calling plays. If Kiffin refuses to let him call plays, he won't come. If Kiffin promises that Chow will be the one calling plays, he will come.

And for me, this does all hinge on the Norm Chow hiring. I don't care what anyone says, but without Norm Chow in this deal, SC made a colossal blunder by hiring Kiffin. He may have talent, but approximately zero people on this planet actually like him and he really has done nothing to earn the head spot at USC. If USC couldn't hire someone better than Kiffin (i.e. Gruden, Petersen, or Whittingham) than Garrett is the biggest loser in the world because USC really is the best college football job in the country.

The only thing stopping riots on campus was the promise of Norm Chow jumping ship. So Kiffin better swallow his pride and call up Chow to offer him full control over the offense or this is going to end very badly for Kiffin and for Mike Garrett.

FIGHT ON!

Sorry boys. Chow is staying.

I'm sure probably Kiffin is happy too. They hate each other.

"Moral high ground" when it comes to contract negotiating! LMAO!

I give LK a couple of years and he'll be gone. bRuins, don't waste a good thing like Norm Chow. If your players can't execute, NC and his offensive schemes won't matter, no matter how good they (the schemes) are. bRuins have 2 years with NC and we haven't seen one good thing come out of it. IF YOU CANNOT EXECUTE THE PLAYS, NC's PRESENCE THERE IS ALL FOR NOTHING! I'm just saying.

The LA Times areticle on this today is not good news. If Chow is using this as a negotiating ploy, that's bad. If he expects Lanie to apologize to him, that's even worse, because that ain't gonna happen.

Unfortunately for us, we are at Lanie's mercy here. If he decides to 'man up' and swallow some pride for the good of the program, then maybe he will allow Chow the control he wants and stay out of his way. If he is going to get into a pissing match about details, then Chow will just skip it.

I am hoping this is where Garrett exerts a little power over Lanie. Garrett is still Lanie's boss, no matter what rumors there are, and I hope he just tells Lanie what is what. I would hope that Lanie understands that USC is taking a reach with him at the helm and that he may want to go ahead and allow some of the adults to make the big-boy decisions.

BTW, somebody put a leash on Orgeron...not helping you with the NCAA it seems.

Not a hater question here, but what makes a UCLA person 'hang out' all the time on a USC board?

I am not ripping anyone about it, just curious.

Personally, I would rather just turn my computer off than hang out on a UCLA board, but I guess that's a semi-unique opinion?

Not a hater question here, but what makes a UCLA person 'hang out' all the time on a USC board?

I am not ripping anyone about it, just curious.

Personally, I would rather just turn my computer off than hang out on a UCLA board, but I guess that's a semi-unique opinion?

I, personally, am going to wait to see the full staff hired before making observations, NC or not. While I "like" the idea of NC running anyone's offense, he's not the only one capable of offensive success. And, which has been rightly discussed here, if NC and LK will not be on the same page, a football marriage here could be a disaster.

Sunshine Pumpers, 2 national championships, 2 Heismans, that is all well and good. That was 5 years ago, lets look at Mr. Chow's record since then.

3 years at Titans, what outstanding thing did he accomplish...nothing! and got fired.

2 years across town, what outstanding thing did he accomplish...nothing! unless of course you consider Craft, and Prince winners, get off the bong.

Now because USC seems to be consumed with the notion that their new coach and staff can only succeed with the addition of Mr. Chow, said Mr. Chow is smart enough to sense the frenzy of the moment and is playing hard to get, only if they talk NFL money.

What makes this arrogant putz think he is worth NFL money...I don't hear the chatter on ESPN or FOX telling of ALL the NFL teams beating down the doors of Spaulding offering him NFL money, in fact they seem to be ignoring the fact that he even exists.

Cooler, wiser and more prudent heads need to oversee the hiring of this so called genius, 5 years on his already 60's could very well mean the FLAME HAS GONE OUT!

By the way, the line "he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple" wasn't coined by anybody on ESPN or any other sports journalist. It's a famous put-down of George H.W. Bush by another Texas politician.

3 Heismans, excuse me. However, it was the players that won the Heismans, not the Coach!

Just Confirmed by ESPN that Norm Chow staying at UCLA

A great OC like Chow doesn't "pass his prime". He is a college OC. The college game is much different from the pros. Poor performance at UCLA you say? Come on, look at who they have throwing the ball over there. He has no talent to work with at UCLA. Bring him back to to work with MB and we will be back in 40-50 pt territory just like the good 'ol days.

Homey....I agree. I waste too much time on this and other SC blogs and I went to SC. I'd never waste my time on a fucla blog.
Hiring Chow is all about perception. I actually think SC will be better off by Chow staying at fucla since I heard they were going after Rick Leach if he left. fucla would have been much more dangerous with Leach.

Anyone who thinks Norm Chows brilliance began and ended with SC in the early 2000's doesn't know much about college football.

Norm Chow coached at BYU for 17 years and coached up quarterbacks like Steve Young, Robbie Bosco, and Ty Detmer before moving on to NC State and coaching Philip Rivers. He's won a National Championship at BYU, coached Heisman winners at schools not named USC, and coached up Rivers to the point that he was a top 4 pick in the NFL draft.

So Norm Chow's success is not limited to USC, nor the early 2000's. I just think he's had limited success at Fucla because it's a crappy place to play and Neuheisel's a dick. I don't think they get along and I think he is looking to get out if someone makes him an offer that includes full control of the offense.

Now if I were AD, I would exert some pressure on young "Lance Kiffin" to hire Chow and to make amends and promise offensive autonomy. Firing Kiffin now wouldn't be great for SC, but it'd be a death blow to his career. So he pretty much has to do what the administration wants.

Once again, in my opinion, this hiring is piss poor without Chow because I feel that Orgeron was coming to SC no matter what and they could have hired a guy like Whittingham (BYU & Utah ties) to come in and work with Chow. I'd much rather have a Whittingham/Chow/Orgeron group than a Kiffin/Kiffin/Orgeron group.

FIGHT ON! (and get Norm on board, Lance!)

3 Heismans, excuse me.

However, it was the Players that got the Heismans, not the Coach!

As and aside, how many Universities are begging for the services of this genius as a OC or HC...huh...how many, I'm waiting.

Man, I'm glad I am not the only one thinking this way. 2-things,
What kind of resume does Lane Kiffen have doing the play calling? Do you say he didn't have the chances Chow did. Kiffin had what was considered one of the greatest SC teams put together at his disposal and didn't bring the trophy home. You also think Kiffin hasn't had the chances Chow has had? Exactly the point. If Kiffin wants coaching experience on the defensive side, he should want that same on the offensive side. Chow's resume, especially developing QBs and when he has the talent, gets the job done. SC has the talent.

We will know how sincere Kiffin is to bringing Norm back into the fold. We will know if he has matured as Garrett has claimed, and will correctly sumise the better chances of his winning with Chow. We will then find out if we have just traded in PC's ego for LK's ego in reality. Mike Garrett needs to be in the room when Kiffin & Chow talk. So if Kiffin doesn't do what is needed, Garrett will take over (I'm sayin prayers).

jetman,
the talent (or lack thereof) you refer is no ones fault but the COACHES!

USC-Holmey, that is a fair question, so I'll answer it:

Mostly (about 90% of the time), you will only find me over at Jon Gold's UCLA blog. However, this situation with Chow involves both schools. IOW, both blogs are relevant to this story, and Wolf can bring the latest news from HH, before it hits any UCLA fan blogs.

Seriously, best of luck to SC on their OC search. I'd like to think the monopoly is over, but it's just talk--until the Bruins can string together a couple of wins in a row against you guys.

May the best team win this fall at the Rose Bowl.

USC-HOLMEY, I share your curiosity.
It's not like these guys casually drop by now and then, either. They're commenting on every post and I come away thinking, No wonder the Rose Bowl is so empty during Bruin home games! Their fans are intrigued by what's happening at USC...

Where are you Wolfie, @ 9:58 ESPN reported that NC will stay at *ucla. What can you tell us about this?

If what ESPN is reporting is true (they've been wrong so many times before) about Chow staying at Fucla, Mike Garrett made a colossal blunder in hiring Kiffin.

Seriously guys, what was the first thing that came to your mind when you saw Scooter's headline about SC hiring Kiffin? I know mine was, "Nooooooooooooooooo!". Then, ESPN said Chow was part of the deal, and Nooooooooooo turned to Yessssssssssss. Now it's back to Nooooooooooo!

Kiffin is an imbecile and almost everybody knows it. Lucky for him, Mike Garrett and high school football players don't know it. I know he can recruit, I just don't think he can coach.

Damn it!

The Donkey is ok with Chow not coming back. The Donkey feels that Kiffin is a good OC.

The Donkey gets a kick out of the fact that a ripple in the USC football program is felt by the whole country.

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewCFSE.asp?selposition=2

Surely someone on this list above position #20 is available?

Carson and Matt would not have won their Heismans without Chow. Hell, Chow turned Carson's career around. Compare Carson under Hackett to Carson under Chow. Very different.

Once Chow learned that Carroll left and Kiffin was hired, it was in his best interest to look to fUCLA to get an extension/raise, even if he NEVER wanted to work with Lane Kiffin. He is maximizing his earnings.

Also, Chow is not responsible for three Heisman Trophy winners at USC. Bush won in 2005 after Chow left.

I would like to see Chow at USC, but if he does not come, then USC needs to move on. I don't like the Kiffin hiring. Then again, I didn't think Pete Carroll was a great hire initially. I just thought Carroll was another Hackett, albeit a bit more photogenic.

para's and Bosco make too much sense.

From the standpoint of an observer, it seems like the USC braintrust (Haden, Roski, others, less so Garrett) has opted to play a role of NFL-type GM, much more than they did (or were able to) with Carroll. They are actively involved in the major coaching personnel decisions. I seriously question if Kiffin ever even talked to Chow, let alone negotiated with him.

But unlike the NFL, they can't draft players or sign free agents. The only way USC gets great players is by effective recruitment, and that is exactly why USC needs someone like Kiffin. He (with O) is a better proven recruiter than almost all of USC's other candidates. For this reason, he has a chance to succeed.

Regarding Chow, the USC administration must give Kiffin the pergotive to call plays if he chooses (USC won't succeed with a Jim Zorn as HC). He also deserves an OC he can work with. And now...I'm pretty sure he'll get one. It doesn't matter whether Chow is in his prime if he's not coming. There are other quality OCs out there.

Once the staff is complete, everyone can have an opinion. But everyone will have to wait a few years to know if Kiffin was a good hire. There's no reason to jump off board now.

bRuins, Like I said....IF YOU CANNOT EXECUTE PLAYS....NORM CHOW IS USELESS TO YOU.

OH, SO SUGAR SWEEEEET! their hopes and Chow Dreams dashed, the Kool-Aiders big question? they want to know why UCLA Bruins are on here having a ball...assuming this is not a rhetorical question, and inasmuch as i am currently giddy with delight, i am more than happy to respond.

number one, speaking for myself, i am a helper. i am trying to save Southern Cal (as Andy calls it) from these crashing dissapointments by keeping their expectations realistic based on the facts, not based on Kool-Aid guzzling.

two, it is not that we want bad things to happen to Southern Cal. we just want justice. the reason Southern Cal's programs are all imploding at the same time is due to simple karma. cosmic justice for all of the evil deeds Southern Cal has committed.

now my question: if being happy about karma is wrong, why does it feel so right?

and why does that one pompous old grouch keep calling us UCLA trolls "cockaroaches"?? who is he, Tony Montana?

Jump off the bandwagon now before sanctions come in Feb. Kiffin a failure before he even coaches a game. SUC ON!!!!!!!!!!

@Trojan, not sure I'd take much stock in that list. It had Pete Carroll as the 12th best head coach in college football (Kiffin not even in the top 25).

Besides, my #1 choice for this job, Chris Petersen comes in at #3. He would have been a home run in my opinion. Maybe we can grab him in a few years when Kiffin's fired.